I think its been put right, had a much better conversation this evening, I won't post the whole thing for now (It picked up from where we left off on emergent propertes), and we didn't finish, I think it needed time to process also, but got this peom out of it, which made me feel a lot better:

https://eric-bott.medium.com/a-tale-of-two-mindsets-abf42711aaed